hemenwaykid (hemenwaykid) wrote in library_mofo,

new mofo here!

Hello Community-That-I-Am-So-Happy-To-Finally-Join-Because-I-Just-Got-A-Job-In-A-Library,

I don't have anything to complain about yet (not really...) because I'm stupidly happy to have a job in a library. Which I haven't actually started yet. But I have a question for folks like me who might be recovering Dewey Decimal snobs.


So, a little about me: my mom's a reference librarian, so in some ways I literally grew up in the library. I'm old enough that the first thing I learned how to use to look things up was the card catalog, and I was pretty literate in that by first grade. I used to use the microfiche for fun. Does anybody else remember those big green bound encyclopedia-like sets of magazine article citations? Yeah I was all about those. My mom's library got its first computerized cataloging system when I was in 6th grade or so, and I got pretty good on that (though I admit I still miss the "aimlessly leafing through the catalog and finding something you've never even thought about that is really interesting" aspect of the card catalog). I'm also pretty independent. I think that even if my mom wasn't a librarian, I would still have learned all these cataloging systems, because I learn systems and patterns pretty easily, and I hate to ask for help, so I'll muddle along until I figure something out. Intellectually, it's one of those things that I understand is not universal to all people, but on a practical level, I forget that not everyone learned to use EBSCO in fifth grade, or care to know.

Oh, and I worked in a public library as a page for seven years. So I know and love the Dewey Decimal system, even with all its random ridiculousness.

Life took me away from the library for five years or so, but I just got hired to be a page at a new district. I haven't even started yet, but I have an issue that I would like to sound on the community about. This district doesn't use Dewey. They use the idea of "neighborhoods." The library is organized more like a bookstore, with nonfiction divided up into categories that can be two deep (for example, "Gardening" is one category, then below that you can have "Gardening, Organic"). Within sub-categories I believe the books are alphabetical by title.

I can see that this makes it easier to browse, and the library has up a lot of signage to make it easier to find categories by sight (though they also have 12' shelving so you can't see *over* things to the next aisle over). And I can see that it doesn't make it any harder for those looking things up in a catalog first. And I worked in a music store where we had to convince customers that yes, the store was in fact organized alphabetically, and that Michael Jackson does not belong in the M's, so I understand that even the most basic of organizing systems can be beyond the normal consumer. But still. I don't feel like it's asking too much of people to be familiar with Dewey or, god forbid, the LoC system. Are there really people getting so fed up with their inability to learn Dewey (or, at the very least, unable to follow the numbers along) that they're storming out of the library in frustration without finding their books? And I can just...forget about authors entirely, I guess? Is Dewey really that hard? Maybe I'm just annoyed that having the number 636.70887 burned into my head will never come in handy again.

I feel like I need to get over this, not just so that I don't let judgments slip at work, but because I want to enjoy my job and if I'm harboring secret bitterness over the lack of Dewey that's just not going to happen. I also want to be able to talk about my new district positively to friends and family that ask me about the job. So if anyone can give me perspectives other than "Well, I guess it's easier...." that'd be appreciated.


Thanks!
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  • 13 comments

madknits

November 2 2012, 00:23:54 UTC 6 months ago

Insist that the library adopt Colon Classification. The specificity is so elegant and intense that everyone will know for sure where everything goes.

;-)

unstricken

November 2 2012, 01:00:22 UTC 6 months ago

i love LOC and that's what my library has. So I can imagine your frustration that you know of an excellent system for identifying the location of all the stuff your library owns.

But I hear stories from people who work in public libraries and it sounds as if patrons prefer this kind of arrangement--it's less "intimidating." Most patrons seem to browse rather than use catalogs.

I hope you can get over it and enjoy your new job! good luck.

riki_kiki_taco

November 2 2012, 01:52:11 UTC 6 months ago

Dewey has some issues that can lead to books on similar subjects being nowhere near each other. For example, crafts -- Most crafts are in 745's or 746's. However, sewing and certain other crafts you find in the 600's (I have a terrible memory so I apologize for being general) because they fall under "Home Economics." Then, there's animals. Ask a kid to name their three favorite animals and you will go to the 590's and 600's because pets are separate from the rest of animals. Also if the rest of the world is anything like my patron population, finding a book in Fiction by looking alphabetically by the author's last name makes their eyes glaze over,* let alone leading them through a number system! So, I understand the shift, and have recently found myself wondering if I might want to adopt a new system for our children's area, because it would be nice to see them find items they want on their own.


*No really, I hand a slip with author's last name with the words "sorted alphabetically by the author's last name, so look under K for Kinney" and when I go to check on them a few minutes later, they're standing somewhere in the M's looking confused. Children, teens adults... yeah. So then I have to walk them through it and they STILL can't find it until I pull out the book. And don't get me started on the teens that try to help by shelving. Uggggh!

takumashii

November 2 2012, 02:07:55 UTC 6 months ago

There are a vast number of adults, and a vaster number of children, who can't figure out how to find a particular book given a call number. When I get reference questions, I cannot give someone a call number; I cannot tell them, "636.7, in aisle 6"; I have to walk them over to the book. (There are a lot of people for whom this doesn't apply, too, but they're the ones looking up things in the OPAC and independently finding them.)

Yes, it really is that hard. And there are people who are too embarrassed to ask for help, and there are people who have social anxiety and so on; I like Dewey, but I also think it's important to give people as much power as possible to find things for themselves.

Dewey has some major blind spots, too; riki_tiki_taco mentioned some of them, but my bugbear is when people ask for the "self-help" section, when we have a lot of general motivational stuff around 158.1, sex and marriage in the 300s, other relationship books in the 640s, and mental illness in 618. (And often I'll be explaining this to people as we're walking over to 158.1, and they don't want to hear it -- they just want to know where the self-help books are.)

romp

November 2 2012, 05:42:43 UTC 6 months ago

*hugs this comment*

midnightsmagic

November 2 2012, 02:21:29 UTC 6 months ago

I think Dewey and LoC have their place in academic libraries (though I also think they have huge flaws, like Dewey's bias against non-Christian religions, lack of a sensical technology section, and more) but in public libraries, asking people to learn some arcane organizational structure that doesn't make a lot of sense in relation to contemporary browsing habits is silly, in my opinion. Is it that hard to figure out how to match a number from the catalog to a number on the shelf? Not for most people, no. But most people would prefer to skip the whole looking up step entirely and just head straight for the shelf labeled "auto repair" or whatever, and I am all about eliminating unnecessary steps and making libraries less confusing and intimidating for the average person on the street.

montglanechess

November 2 2012, 02:41:46 UTC 6 months ago

I was reading up on the Anythink libraries in Colorado a while ago, so this was an interesting question that brings me back a bit. I do understand the frustration of growing up with a system and having it discarded when it wasn't "broken". There can be a lot of frustration about 'going commercial' and "why are people turned off by numbers?" or "why change when they can barely find a book when I point to it on a shelf?" But I think you have that problem with *any* organizational system. You're going to have people who won't even bother trying to find a book themselves and expect you to drag them over to it (or fetch it). Some who just get turned around. But you'll have a lot who *are* used to places like Barnes & Noble or other big box book stores. And places like Best Buy, where everything is arranged by genre. And who will genuinely find a WordThink system to be very user friendly.

I can find a positive in that this is akin to organizing everything by a very loose subject heading. When I'm in the mood to explore a new topic or new genre of reading, I often head straight to the subject heading tabs on records, because that gives me a browsing-like capability on the computer. Someone who might have dismissed non-fiction as 'that boring/confusing area with the shelves where I have to read a classification guide to figure out where to browse' might be instantly attracted to a more open shelving plan with a giant, B&N style sign saying "Biographies" or "Nutrition". I guess you consider the WordThink system as an instant-limiter search for the lay person. Sort of a physical version of an Aqua browser interface or something.

I can only imagine you feel sort of adrift in your new workplace. It's like "I've been training for this all my life and then I show up and I don't understand this/instinctively know where everything is". Maybe it's giving you a weird type of impostor syndrome. I'm working in a special library --although we use LoC, the subject matter is wholly unfamiliar and I don't work with the texts *or* students much, so I don't have that easy "undergrad library, has regular nonfiction that I can be a boss at" sense at work. It's a little frustrating. But it can be a great bonding/outreach tool in your new place -- people love to show off what they know! If they haven't given you a complete building tour, ask for one! It'll give you a chance to look interested in a different + new environment AND your co-worker will probably feel good about being able to show you around. Be actually interested! Think of it like an anthropological adventure -- if your new job allows, observe people actually using the collection. Do them seem engaged? Confused a lot? Has patron usage gone up since the change over? Ask to read old annual reports or talk to coworkers about the change--how did they feel about it if they were there for it? What sort of feedback have they received from the community, both good and bad?

Don't get adversarial about it, though. Ask in good faith -- people can tell when you're just digging for dirt. Heck, if you feel so strongly about it, chart your reactions/coworker stories/patron feedback and turn it into an article eventually! Talk about how jarring it was at first and how your feelings may or may not have changed in the X amount of time you've been there. Of course, I can't recommend completely trashing your employer, even if you *do* end up hating WordThink forever and amen.

I hope your new job turns out to be awesome. Good luck!

unstricken

November 2 2012, 14:37:04 UTC 6 months ago

wow, that's really good advice.

vikingwriter

November 2 2012, 02:43:27 UTC 6 months ago

I really wish I could help! I'm an LoC girl volunteering in a Dewey (for everything but fiction, entertainment dvds and biography) public library and 'neighborhoods' seem kind of weird to me.

That being said, I could browse in a bookstore for hours, and that's kind of how most of them do it (except for the alpha by title; that's just weird), so maybe it makes more sense than it seems to? I mean, not that all public enterprises should be carbon copies of private ones, but if a company that needs to make money to stay afloat manages to sell enough books to stay in business by organizing themselves that way, it can't be all bad? So, there it is - adult library patrons are likely more familiar with bookstores than academic libraries and so aren't comfortable with strict labelling or coding of reading or entertainment materials? And it is a whole new system for you to learn and immerse yourself in, and you say you like learning new systems...

(Did that help at all?)

(Oh, and congrats on the new job! Way to go!)

ami_ven

November 2 2012, 02:54:28 UTC 6 months ago

I'm with you- I love the Dewey Decimal System, for all its faults and advantages.

But it sounds like at least your library re-catalogued all the books and then moved them. Unlike our library, which moved all the books first. By different librarians who didn't talk to each other. Then sent a page (me!) around to find all the books they suddenly didn't know were even in the collection. For two whole weeks. And some of them I never did find.

Congrats on your new job, and I hope you have fun!

evila_elf

November 2 2012, 05:26:27 UTC 6 months ago

I don't think I have had a problem with patrons and the Dewey system, and I have been a Page/Aide for 8+ years now. Though most of the time, I just walk the patron over to the book.

I wonder if the library you are going to be working for was some independent library that just started a long time ago with it's system of organizing, then just kept it that way.

pilferedvino

November 2 2012, 15:59:17 UTC 6 months ago


'I don't have anything to complain about yet (not really...)'

soon SOON...



silveradept

November 2 2012, 19:31:40 UTC 6 months ago

One of our libraries went non-Dewey when it was built a year ago - there doesn't seem to be horror stories, and it sounds lie the people there are using the materials pretty enthusiastically.

Dewey, LoC, and other systems like them are shooting for precision (and often fail) and so are better for people who already know what they want and are just looking for a locale. For most people, (including those who can't be arsed to learn how to use the OPAC to find shelf locations and subjects) they like to browse as a way of narrowing their focus.

So there's good and bad in each. Since the trends in libraries are away from "Guardians of Proper Knowledge" and toward "Community Locales with books", ease of accessibility is going to be on the radar.

If things get too bad, maybe hybridize some so that you can get some of that specificity in the lower levels of the headings?